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 Post subject: Version 6.0
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 265
Location: Switzerland
Hi all,

With this post, I just would like to thank all people working around the new release version 6.0.

Actually, I run on the 5.0.x, and I 've installed the 6.0 (from launchpad) to know how it is growing, because we have some missing funcionalities in the verison 5.0.

And, .... I discover a really great job done, I know it is not finished. But I know the new version will be very powerfull, more user friendly (great job there too), and complete.

I hope it won't be the same as migrating from 4.2 to 5.0, but easier.

With my best regards.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2746
Location: Annecy & Toulon,France
tchiboo wrote:

I hope it won't be the same as migrating from 4.2 to 5.0, but easier.


As far as openerp has communicated on this, you'll have to contract with an openerp partner/reseller to get the migration scripts from openerp.
Nevertheless these scripts will only support openerp-certified modules at first.
I think it will be a concern for all those who installed openerp V5 by their own, if openerp-sa don't change their mind. They never published V4 to V5 scripts.
We don't know what will happen to V5 after V6 launch either, I'm afraid nothing and V5 may de-facto die.

regards

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 Post subject: Migration
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 265
Location: Switzerland
Hi,

For me, if what you say is correct, that mean openerp erp IS NOT FREE.

Because if each migration is mandatory, and for each migration you have to buy a script it is like buying openerp and eAch teo years .

That meet the feeling I have. Lets see.

In switzerland we have big project for openerp erp in the non-profit area, we are not against paying to have support when needed. But not that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 265
Location: Switzerland
Oh,

And that's true, we never saw the promised script V4 V5

Bounaberdi wrote:
tchiboo wrote:

I hope it won't be the same as migrating from 4.2 to 5.0, but easier.


As far as openerp has communicated on this, you'll have to contract with an openerp partner/reseller to get the migration scripts from openerp.
Nevertheless these scripts will only support openerp-certified modules at first.
I think it will be a concern for all those who installed openerp V5 by their own, if openerp-sa don't change their mind. They never published V4 to V5 scripts.
We don't know what will happen to V5 after V6 launch either, I'm afraid nothing and V5 may de-facto die.

regards


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:37 am
Posts: 27
Agree with tchiboo, Tiny's politic with migration scripts isn't really acceptable and it's the only point where we can say that OpenERP isn't free (on the other hand, no double license, all in AGPL, really thanks Tiny for that).

But this time, I think OpenERP's community is far more mature and I believe that there has already a migration script in the making. Someone for confirming it?
Anyway, I want to help for this work, especially we have a great tool for this purpose with server_migration by kndati.

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SSLL spécialisée dans l'implémentation d'OpenERP en Ile-De-France.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2746
Location: Annecy & Toulon,France
YannickB wrote:
Anyway, I want to help for this work, especially we have a great tool for this purpose with server_migration by kndati.

I did collaborate with kn-dati for some V4-V5 data migration. I can confirm they did a great job and I still look forward to working with them again. I like the idea of reproducing data to a fresh new database, nevertheless it may not cover all cases of historical data anyway.
rgrds

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 265
Location: Switzerland
I like to bring all datas to a new db toi.

Last time i ve exported, i would be pleased to try or help like you says with. The kndati's job.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:58 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Spain
With OOOR/Terminatooor from akretion, it would be kind of "easy" to build our own community migration script.

We have migrated recently some clients from 5.0.1 to 5.0.14, including:
- Partners
- Products
- Stock inventory
- Invoices
- CRM leads and opportunities.

Not as easy as http://kndati.lv/index.php/en/openerp/o ... -migration but also working.

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[url]http://www.factorlibre.com[/url]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:48 am
Posts: 2124
Location: Grand-Rosiere, Belgium
Hello,

I made a clear explanation of OpenERP SA's point of view about migrations here:
http://www.openerp.com/node/465

Our goal is to be very transparent on how we work and why we do it that way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:30 am
Posts: 265
Location: Switzerland
Thank you for your clear, and complete answer.

I think this way it is transparent.

That's unfortunately too expensive for us.


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 Post subject: The code release
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:50 pm
Posts: 73
Hello Fabien,

Your clear explanation states that you are not releasing the migration scripts because it causes "frustrations". I assure you it will not create more frustration than what existing openerp modules could create or have already done.

If you had made the statement after publishing your sources, that openerp sa offers the service of migration, it would be perfectly normal. But, in this case you are hiding the source code for migrations and then claim that you dont release because its not easy to use.

If Tryton can manage and pack migrations with the module for all maintained versions (not just previous), why not Open ERP pack migration scripts with the same modules as the code is developed? Technically, we could explain this as antifeature, which is against the free (as in freedom) software principles too. As a business, it would be in the interest of openerp to make changes in the code from version to version, as it fetches more revenue for Open ERP SA through sale of migration scripts.

In simple terms, this is exploitation that adds hidden costs to openerp and introduces vendor lock-in to openerp sa.

To summarise:

1. Open ERP hides migration scripts and complexity is no excuse for code hiding.
2. Selling of migration scripts motivates Openerp SA (a for profit business) to make changes to boost sales
3. Migrations being part of the modules themselves, the hiding away of source code and selling them at price, is 'antifeature' and against GPL.
4. Migration scripts are hidden costs to an openerp adopter and a form of vendor lock-in

Note: Above are not my self declared opinions. You could refer to extensive literature available on the same. I could lead you to some if you need.

Thanks to the work of spars (kndati) that something usable existed for migration from 4 to 5. Never checked TerminatOOR for migrations, but we will be definitely looking forward to using it. Thanks Raphael & co for this great work!

One last question: Are migration 'scripts' GPL?

Thanks

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Business Analyst & ERP Consultant
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:14 pm
Posts: 109
I also want to add, that kndati.lv migration scripts from v.4. to 5. where designed to be usable in future versions of OpenERP too. I guess we need to do some minor changes to run them for 5 to 6 migration, although we haven't tested yet.
At this point I doubt, that v.6 is useful in production and will be in a couple of months- especially considering v.5 pain was.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2746
Location: Annecy & Toulon,France
Hello,

confirmed points are :
- openerp-sa scripts will only cover certified modules
- one can get these scripts only through a first-level support contract from an official reseller
- openerp-sa is not committed in maintaining previous versions

which indicates the following roadmap for the community :
- organize migration of extra/custom modules, probably contributed by the module's author
- create/maintain a free migration solution
- organize previous versions maintainance

I agree the publisher cannot do everything for free and his guarantee has a price. Nevertheless community is in charge of filling the gap between what the publisher delivers and what the real need is, by organizing sharing of contributions for all those who prefer master all key aspects of their IS.

Only a first thought after reading this topic.
Regards

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:48 am
Posts: 2124
Location: Grand-Rosiere, Belgium
Hello,
Bounaberdi, you are quite wrong on your issues, please read our contracts and quality of services. The publisher's warranty:

* OpenERP SA guarantees to maintain versions for 3 main stable (5.0, 6.0, 7.0) -> minimum 4.5 years. So, you can freely stays in version 5 for a while.
* Cover all certified modules, but you can ask to certify any custom module. Just have a look on how much modules have been ported to trunk and you will see why it's important -> 800€ to backport, bugfix and maintain for 1 year (=2 versions) a custom module is quite cheap. Have also a look on who follows legal issues for l10n modules. We probably loose money on this certification service, if you do it yourself, I am happy.
* Our migration service cover certified modules but we accept non-certified modules, we just don't bugfix them. (so you can focus only on your custom modules)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:31 pm
Posts: 457
@sharoonthomas
I completely agree with you.

@To Whom It May Concern

I want to add, to what was said by Sharoon, that this lock in and anti-feature policy is present in other places of OpenERP. Let it be manual introduction of new reports in OpenERP system and change of the templates for existing ones. This feature is available in generic OpenERP and TinyERP, although, it has been intentionally hidden no to leave it open and force buying GPL licensed (!!!) Report Designer.

You would ask "GPL licensed?", yes it is GPL licensed, that's what the code says and the About box of Report Designer states as well. One would ask for proof, here you are:
http://doc.openerp.com/developer/7_23_RAD_tools/index.html#about
And I have been testing Report Designer with statements of GPL license, by myself, and I would not hesitate to modify one for using with report_openoffice, if it would not be a crap-ware...

This is clear evidence of selling a software licensed under GPL. So if somebody have paid money for this software, and poses a copy of one, you are absolutely righteous to release Report Designer to the general public! Because it is licensed under GPL, no kidding!

@ OpenERP SA
If there is some idea of removing this GPL statement from web page or the Report Designer itself, as this have been done with "requirements for new partners", it is absolutely useless. I have copied the page and will provide a copy to anybody who want to use Report Designer rightfully licensed under GPL.

----

What requirements for partners?
- Those requirements, which asked partners not to release any software (which was developed under Shared Funding initiative, in particular) to a third party. Software, which is being provided to them during contract with Tiny Sprl. (at the time), software still licensed under GPL! These requirements were removed from web page after a rant on a forum, to hide the actual policy from general community. Isn't it against GPL?

I would not say anything if OpenERP would be semi commercial software from the very beginning, and anybody had a right to contribute a proprietary licensed modules. Still this right is delegated only to OpenERP SA and it's partners, which sell their OpenObject related developments under proprietary licenses just like that.

I am sorry but this is clear policy of "lock in"!

Is OpenERP SA open minded?
- Despite their statements -No.

Is OpenObject and OpenERP really FOSS?
- Yes, because it is the merit of community. Fortunately community is strong enough to cover the breaches.

Best regards!
Kaspars
-----------------------------
http://kndati.lv


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